Curtis E. Shuck Jr.'s journey began on July 25, 2019, during a trip to northern Montana. While touring farmland to discuss grain logistics, Curtis stumbled upon a disconcerting sight: piles of garbage and the unmistakable smell of gas emanating from orphaned oil wells. Farmers shared their decades-long frustrations, citing the lack of action by state agencies. Having worked in the oil and gas industry since 1982, Curtis was shocked to see this neglected problem firsthand. By the end of that same day, he had secured the domain name for what would become the Well Done Foundation, committed to addressing this critical environmental issue.
With decades of industry experience—from Alaska’s North Slope to the Bakken oil fields—Curtis used his knowledge and network to transition from oil production to environmental restoration. Since its inception, the Well Done Foundation has grown from a small operation in Montana to a national effort working across 16 states and gaining international attention.
You can listen to this episode here:
What is the Well Done Foundation?
The Well Done Foundation (WDF) is a nonprofit organization dedicated to plugging and restoring orphaned oil and gas wells. Founded in 2019, WDF addresses the environmental and health hazards posed by these abandoned wells, which emit methane and other harmful gases. Operating under a grassroots model, the foundation began its work in Montana but has since expanded to states like North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Texas, among others.
WDF’s team consists of around 10 staff members, hundreds of volunteers, and various technical specialists. Their mission is simple yet profound: reduce the climate impact of orphaned wells while restoring land to its natural state. By adopting a “one well at a time” approach, they focus on measurable climate benefits and tangible community impacts. To date, WDF has successfully plugged 47 wells and measured methane emissions from thousands of others.
Website: https://welldonefoundation.org/
Contact Curtis: curtis@welldonefoundation.org
What is Well Plugging?
Well plugging is the process of sealing abandoned oil and gas wells to prevent the leakage of harmful gases and fluids. The procedure involves several critical steps and requires a team of specialists to execute:
Assessment and Preparation: Engineers and geologists inspect the well’s condition, map its structure, and measure emissions using advanced tools like gas chromatography and infrared sensors.
Plugging the Well: Mechanical barriers, such as steel casing and specialized cement, are used to seal the wellbore. Cement is pumped into the well at various depths to ensure a complete and durable seal, preventing future leaks.
Surface Restoration: Once the well is sealed, environmental technicians restore the land by removing old infrastructure, replanting vegetation, and ensuring soil health.
Well plugging is a collaborative effort involving engineers, geologists, environmental scientists, and regulatory officials to ensure the process adheres to state and federal standards. Typically, plugging a well takes about five days, but preparation and post-plugging monitoring can extend the timeline significantly.
Why Orphaned Wells Are an Environmental Problem
Orphaned wells are oil and gas wells that have been abandoned by operators without proper closure. These wells often emit methane, a greenhouse gas that is over 80 times more potent than carbon dioxide in its short-term impact. Methane leaks contribute significantly to climate change and can also pose health risks to nearby communities due to the presence of toxic gases like hydrogen sulfide and benzene.
The scale of the problem is staggering. In the United States alone, there are an estimated 3.2 million abandoned wells, many of which leak harmful emissions.
Globally, the issue extends to countries like Canada, which has an estimated 313,000 abandoned wells, and Australia, with significant numbers in Queensland and New South Wales. Even Turkmenistan faces challenges with methane emissions from poorly managed wells. The climate impact is significant: each unplugged well can release the equivalent of 5 to 7 tons of CO2 annually (source: Environmental Defense Fund) annually. Beyond the environmental damage, these wells can also contaminate groundwater and disrupt ecosystems. For instance, studies, including those from the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) and Environmental Science & Technology journal, have shown that brine water and hydrocarbons from leaking wells can infiltrate aquifers, making local water sources unsafe for human consumption and agriculture.
By plugging wells, the Well Done Foundation not only reduces greenhouse gas emissions but also mitigates health hazards such as respiratory issues, neurological problems, and cancer risks from exposure to gases like hydrogen sulfide, benzene, and toluene. Additionally, it restores land for agricultural and community use. Their efforts exemplify how targeted action can tackle this "dirty little secret" of the oil and gas industry while driving meaningful environmental change.
What are the consequences of abandoned oil and gas wells?
1. Methane Emissions
Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, with a global warming potential over 20 times greater than carbon dioxide over a 100-year period. Abandoned wells are substantial contributors to methane emissions:
Emission Estimates: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that abandoned oil and gas wells emit approximately 0.276 million metric tons of methane annually.
High-Emission Wells: Research indicates that a small fraction of these wells are responsible for the majority of emissions. Specifically, about 10% of orphaned and abandoned wells account for the bulk of methane emissions, while the remaining wells have undetectable emissions.
2. Groundwater Contamination
Abandoned wells can serve as conduits for pollutants to enter groundwater supplies:
Toxic Substances: These wells may leak hazardous chemicals, including arsenic and benzene, into groundwater, posing risks to drinking water sources.
Regulatory Gaps: In the United States, there is no regulatory requirement to monitor or account for methane emissions from abandoned wells, complicating efforts to assess and mitigate groundwater contamination risks.
3. Structural Hazards
The physical deterioration of abandoned wells can lead to:
Land Subsidence: Well collapses may cause sinkholes or subsidence, impacting infrastructure and ecosystems.
Explosions and Fires: Accumulated gases, such as methane, can lead to explosions if ignited. For instance, leaks from abandoned wells have been found to contaminate groundwater and soil, and in extreme cases, gas from abandoned wells has caused explosions.
4. Economic Burden
Addressing the issues posed by abandoned wells entails significant costs:
Cleanup Costs: Plugging and reclaiming a single well can cost up to $100,000 or more, depending on its depth and location. With an estimated 2 to 3 million abandoned wells in the U.S., the total remediation cost could reach hundreds of billions of dollars.
Taxpayer Liability: When the responsible parties are insolvent or unidentifiable, the financial burden often falls on taxpayers. For example, the U.S. Department of the Interior has initiated programs to address these environmental hazards, but funding and resources may be insufficient to tackle the vast number of orphaned wells.
5. Lack of Regulation and Oversight
Many abandoned wells lack proper documentation and monitoring:
Incomplete Records: Some wells, especially those drilled before modern regulations, have little to no documentation, making them difficult to locate and assess.
Insufficient Monitoring: Without regular inspections, leaks and structural issues may go unnoticed, exacerbating environmental and safety risks. For instance, abandoned oil and gas wells are not typically inspected, and if there are leaks, little is known about the environmental impact.
Bureau of Ocean Energy Management
Recent Developments in the oil and gas industry
Efforts to address the challenges posed by abandoned wells are ongoing:
Policy Initiatives: The U.S. Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act includes provisions for funding the plugging and remediation of orphaned wells, aiming to mitigate their environmental impact.
Technological Advances: Innovations in well detection and methane measurement are improving the identification and prioritization of high-risk wells for remediation.
Abandoned oil and gas wells represent a complex challenge at the intersection of environmental science, public health, and economic policy. Addressing these issues requires coordinated efforts from government agencies, industry stakeholders, and communities to ensure effective remediation and prevent future hazards.
The questions we address in this episode:
1:51 Can you share your inspiration behind its creation and your journey into this impactful work?
5:05 can you tell me a little bit more how that transition from oil to sustainability worked out and what you've done before?
10:05 How was it for you to transition from, you know, oil and gas being on the other side now doing that, being very environmental focused?
12:07 how big is the Well Done Foundation
17:47 So when you go to these sites, what do you see and how do you actually? What's the process looking like?
23:15 Tell us more about the health hazards of abandoned wells.
26:04 Do you feel like this is getting more recognized and is putting more effort into this one side, from the oil and gas industry, but also from the governments or other parties?
30:28 Tell us more about your certification offer
34:15 what milestones you want to focus on or want to achieve in the next few years?
36:28 Do you think the appetite for environmental projects will come up again?
39:04 what has been your most valuable experience in the last five years?
40:03 If people want to reach out and maybe donate, how can they do that?
41:01 what makes you confident that we can solve the climate crisis?
Memorable quotes from the episode:
17:43 Responsible Production of Energy should mean that at the end of the day you have to clean after yourself
34:24 I have a well plugging problem. I raise a bit of money and I plug a well. Honestly how many we plug depends on how much we can raise.
35:19 We had to look for a market based solution for dealing with some of these climate problem. That is what started this carbon finance programme.
36:16 We know that we are not gonna be the ones plugging every abandoned well in the planned but we definitely can do our part in sharing the knowledge and multiplying the actors for this to scale up.
41:10 One well at a time is how we can solve this climate crisis. Thats what gets me up in the morning
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AI episode transcription:
Narrator: 0:00
You are listening to Sustain Now. In this podcast, you will learn from successful entrepreneurs and scientists about the newest climate change solutions to address the climate crisis, from food and agri-tech over energy material innovation to circular economy. This non-profit podcast is hosted by Frederica. She is a tech entrepreneur and climate enthusiast. You can find show notes and background information on wwwsustainnowch. Enjoy the show.
Narrator: 0:39
Welcome to today's episode of the Sustain Now podcast. Today, friderico will explore the critical issue of orphaned oil and gas wells abandoned sites that leak methane, a potent greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere. Our guest, curtis E Shuck Jr, founder of the Well Done Foundation, shares how a seemingly ordinary visit to Montana's farmland led to his mission of plugging these wells and reducing their environmental and health hazards. Curtis brings a unique perspective, having transitioned from decades in the oil and gas industry to leading a grassroots movement for change. We'll uncover how his team is restoring polluted land, quantifying climate benefits through carbon credits and turning forgotten environmental problems into tangible wins. This episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at how determination, innovation and collaboration can address even the most daunting environmental challenges. Let's dive in.
Friederike: 1:41
Curtis, thank you so much for joining us. The WellDown Foundation has been instrumental in addressing environmental challenges posed by orphaned oil and gas wells. Can you share your inspiration behind its creation and your journey into this impactful work?
Curtis: 1:58
Sure you bet. And hey, thank you so much for having me on today, and you know I'm here completely by accident. I will tell you that I mean the way that this journey started for me was on July 25th of 2019. And I was up in northern Montana talking with farmers about moving grain to new markets on the Pacific and taking that grain in through some of the ports in the Pacific Northwest fields with them that day. They were showing me, of course, their crops of beans and peas, and garbanzos and lentils, and I started to notice these piles of garbage and this smell of gas coming from the area. And when I started to question the farmers about what was this I was seeing and smelling, their response was well, those are just orphan wells and you know, we've been dealing with those for decades and decades and we're just so frustrated with the state there's nothing that we can, that they can do, or they have done, or very little that they had done. And that just stuck with me all day as we were continuing the tour and myself I've had a career in oil and gas since the 1980s and I just couldn't believe what I was seeing and what I was smelling.
Curtis: 3:43
And so, finally, that evening, on my way back to Bozeman, montana, about a four hour drive, we started, my wife and I then started to secure the domain name. So during the course of that day, this notion of well done, you know, came to me as far as a business name or as a name of an organization. And so that night, again, driving back to Bozeman at 85 miles an hour, securing domain names, registering the business with the secretary of state and with absolutely no idea where we were going, just that something needed to be done. And, of course, during that time period, then, this journey of discovery, began to see exactly how extensive the problem was in the US. And then, oh, by the way, not only in the United States, but really globally, in the United States, but really globally. And so here we are, you know, five years later now, and with just an amazing story and some really fantastic accomplishments, based on a wonderful team and a lot of very passionate supporters.
Friederike: 5:01
Okay, that was 2019, right.
Curtis: 5:04
Yes, ma'am.
Friederike: 5:05
Wow, fantastic, but it must have been quite a challenge coming from the oil and gas industry. Maybe you can elaborate a little bit what you have done before. Coming from that, like everyone says, it's the bad guys, can you tell me a little bit more how that transition worked out and what you've done before?
Curtis: 5:22
Yeah, you bet Absolutely. And one thing I think that is really important is that in 2019, orphan wells were really everybody's dirty little secret. Nobody wanted to talk about them. The oil and gas companies certainly didn't want to talk about it because they didn't want that to reflect poorly back onto them. Of course, the regulators didn't want to talk about it because they didn't want that to reflect poorly back onto them. Of course the regulators didn't want to talk about it because they had been challenged financially with having any wherewithal to have anything done.
Curtis: 5:56
And so I found sort of this perfect storm, as I stepped in and as our organization stepped in and started actually taking action, that it was met with some, you know, initially reluctance and then some skepticism, as you can imagine. But then as we started moving forward, we just started, you know, adopting wealth and plugging wealth and, you know, again, people began to see that you know we weren't messing around, that we were. You know I tell people all the time that we're in the get shit done business right. So, and indeed we are so from coming from the oil and gas industry. So I started my career in 1982 and on Alaska's North Slope as a roustabout and a roustabout is just a really fancy name for you know, for somebody that does everything in the oil field and then progressed into various roles on the logistics side in the public port industry in the state of Washington and the Pacific Northwest. We're still very involved in the movement crude oil from the Trans-Alaska Pipeline Network and in the development of terminals for refined products then that were being produced in those refineries in the Pacific Northwest and along the West Coast.
Curtis: 7:16
In 2015, I took an executive position with an oil field services company in North Dakota in the Bakken play in the Bakken oil field, which is a very famous and large field there in North Dakota, and ran an oil field services company for several years and then started consulting and so this whole time I've been very involved in telling the oil and gas story and it was interesting because through my entire career I had no idea that orphan wells were a thing, that orphan wells existed and that this problem was out there. Because, you know, typically the oil companies that I was working with at the time were sort of the top tier oil companies. Like you know, a lot of people call it big oil, right? You know, the Shells or the Exxon Mobils or the Chevron or whoever right. And the reality is that in the oil and gas industry today, the modern oil and gas industry, you know it's probably the most regulated industry in the world. You know, obviously that varies country to country, but certainly in the United States of America, very regulated, very regulated in the Canadian provinces, and so that's kind of what I was used to.
Curtis: 8:35
Well, come to find out in this orphaned well story is that the way that these wells become orphaned is that they are transacted from party to party to party over the sort of the life cycle, and they start off, you know, again with maybe a top tier producer, and then they get sold to, you know, tier two, tier three, on and on and on, kind of all the way down to at the end of life.
Curtis: 9:06
You know, when the well is marginal at best in terms of having economic returns, you know they end up sort of in what we call, refer to as mom and pop oil, these little oil companies that don't have a lot of wherewithal, and it's sort of this perfect storm, if you would, because the production in the well is declining, the cost to maintain the well is increasing, and so you have this inflection point then, which means that essentially, the economics are upside down and at that point, you know, typically those smaller companies have not, don't have a reserve, financial reserve set aside for the end of life. You know, plug-in abandonment of the well, and so, unfortunately, many of those folks have gone out of business. It just falls to become the ward of the state, and thus the term orphan well.
Friederike: 10:03
How was it for you to transition from, you know, oil and gas being on the other side now doing that, being very environmental focused?
Curtis: 10:12
Well, for us, it's really been this notion of sort of maintaining the high ground in our work In the United States, it seems like, and maybe globally, but certainly in the US, you know, it's the tendency for people and businesses to try to politicize these types of activities.
Curtis: 10:38
And so what we have said and the approach that we have taken, is that, you know, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, whether you're a Catholic or a Protestant, whether you are a climate crusader or a climate denier, this is really about just about doing the right thing right, and so we've always tried to direct our narrative and, to you know, express our activities in that type of a framework.
Curtis: 11:09
Now, of course, what that means is that oftentimes we're sort of hated by everyone because the environmental groups want us to be more active, the oil and gas industry wants us to be more heavily sided with them, and so we just say, well, we're just going to continue to stay in the middle, and so what we've done, and again, in terms of taking that middle ground and trying to stay on the high road, a lot of people want to enter into this discussion of laying blame, you know, and talking trash and what have you, and unfortunately, that's not getting the work done right, that's not producing results, and, as I mentioned earlier, we're pretty much of a results-oriented outfit, and so, for us, we've just tried to completely stay out of that fray. And just you know, get up, put our boots on every morning, walk out the door and make good things happen.
Friederike: 12:07
Coming back, maybe you can give a little bit more flavor, like how big is the Well Done Foundation, how many can you actually do per month to this orphan wells, like how many people are on the ground, just to a little bit more understand the whole company or foundation you're working.
Curtis: 12:25
Sure. So the Well Done Foundation is a nonprofit, so we're an NGO 501c3. We started it was just my wife and I and today we've got well. So when we first started we were focused solely in Montana, of course. Now we're working in 16 states across the United States. We have gosh hundreds of volunteers that assist us in various areas. Our staff of folks is about 10 people strong in various aspects of our work. A lot of our work is on messaging and storytelling, of course, so a very strong presence in social media, very strong in the communication side of public relations. We've got a bunch of folks that are helping us.
Curtis: 13:21
On the technical piece, of course, in the measurement and monitoring and then the well plugging side. So to date we have measured methane gas, quantified methane gas, in thousands of wells across the United States. Now it's important to keep in mind that the scale and the scope of this problem in the US alone is massive. I mean, it's like literally millions of wells. It's not, yeah, it's a whole bunch, right, and it's so overwhelming the numbers that that's why, early, you know, in our existence, we took on the approach of one well at a time, because, again, it's so overwhelming If you think about climate change or you think about all of these daunting, overwhelming issues, it's like you really have to boil it down. And so, by taking on that one well at a time approach, every well becomes a victory, because we're able to quantify the methane gas, do the calculation of the climate benefits and then, as that well is being plugged and abandoned and restored, now all of a sudden we've got just a super powerful story. So we've measured thousands of wells across the United States. We ourselves have plugged across the United States, we ourselves have just started on our 47th well and we just had a release, just this week in fact, of our first batch of carbon credits that will help them to fund the work. Now, up to this point, the Well Done Foundation has been solely funded by our fundraising efforts, through corporate sponsorships, through individual donations, through some just amazing support.
Curtis: 15:16
We often call that sort of the car washes and bake sales types of an approach, but we really are like a grassroots organization and we've really tried to be genuine to that mission that we're not some big, fancy global NGO, we're just a bunch of folks out there getting the work done, and what we hope that that does is we hope that that inspires others then to either work with us or do something on their own. Look, if I can start this journey, anybody can, right, and I think the key is is really to stay true to the mission. And for me and I think back to your question for me it's really about being passionate, about making a difference and leaving things better than the way that we found them. And for me, you know, looking at the legacy that I want to leave behind for my family and children and, you know, future generations.
Curtis: 16:14
It's about, you know, at some point you just have to do something and take action and not worry about how much it's going to cost, because that has all worked itself out and when we first started, all of the money and the adventure came out of our savings and out of our pockets.
Curtis: 16:35
You know, we probably have invested north of a million dollars of our own money into this program, but at the end of the day, it's about knowing that the results are tangible, because it's literally gas on, gas off, and so it's so binary, it's so measurable that it's really hard to argue. You know a lot of people, of course, will want to argue that they're you know the carb, the climate, math, right, you know how we do the global warming potential calculations and what have you. But yeah, it's, uh, it's interesting. So for me, you know, I see it as a real sort of progression within the oil and gas space because, you know, when we have a lot of partners who we work with in oil and gas, and for us it's like it only makes sense that we have to plan for the retirements of these assets. We have to plan for the, you know, I mean responsible production of energy, in whatever sector it is, should mean that at the end of the day, you have to clean up after yourself, right.
Friederike: 17:47
So when you go to these sites, what do you see and how do you actually? What's the process looking like? If you want to plot such a well, how do you engage with, probably, the people owning the land as well? How is this whole process working like?
Curtis: 18:03
Yeah, so we have a lot of streams of information that come to us for the development of our candidate pool, if you would, of orphan wealth, everything from the landowner reaching out and calling us to the regulatory agencies recommending us or contacting us correctly. Many times we're in these local areas and we're working and we sort of get these. Oh, by the way, you know, we've got, you know, farmer Tom down at the coffee shop is talking to his buddies and they're like, oh, we've got a bunch of these wells on our property, and so, you know, sort of this organic flow of this information comes to us. And then we have, as I mentioned, we have our own database, our own funnel, if you would, of wells, or pipeline of wells, to use that term, that we're working on and various stages of completion and preparation. And so the first thing we do is we start to develop a relationship with the landowner, often in the United States and in Canada, but mostly in the US.
Curtis: 19:17
Oftentimes the landowner, so the owner of the surface, is not necessarily the owner of the minerals. And so in the US it's called what's called a split estate, and what that means is that, uncle Harry, you know, back in the day ran into some hard times and sold off his minerals to some slick looking dude at the local, at the local tavern, and now all of a sudden the mineral rights are owned by somebody else. Well, in the US those mineral rights are actually preeminent to the surface ownership. So in other words, if I have purchased the minerals, that means that I can come in and essentially, you know drill a well, put in a pipeline, place a you know tank battery and processing pretty much anywhere I want on that property. I just have to compensate the landowner fair market value for the impact.
Curtis: 20:18
And so oftentimes it creates this friction between the owner of the minerals or his lessee.
Curtis: 20:26
Which is often the way that it goes is because the people that own the minerals aren't the producers.
Curtis: 20:30
So they'll lease then that operation, if you would, to some third party who doesn't have a relationship with the landowner and has divergent interests from, perhaps the farmer or the rancher or whoever. And so oftentimes there's this friction that exists between the landowner and the operator of the oil and gas facility. So we are in every case welcomed by the landowner to come in and help solve this problem right. And of course our experience in oil and gas makes us qualified to do the work in every state that we operate in when we actually adopt a well and by adopting a well I mean this varies state to state just because of the state's rights but in every case we become the financially responsible party. So we, in some cases we, become the oil and gas operator. Now we never operate or produce the well, but we have to have that status with the regulatory agency. We have to then be insured and bonded and provide all of the requirements that any other legitimate going concern would have to do.
Friederike: 21:45
Despite you're actually not extracting anything.
Curtis: 21:47
Yep exactly, and the reason that we've gone that route is because that's the framework that's already set up.
Curtis: 21:54
It's way easier to just try to sort of navigate within that system than try to, you know, even though it makes sense to try to look at some legislative fix, I mean.
Curtis: 22:04
So think of it, how ironic it is that we actually come in and we pay money, we have to post a bond or some level of financial assurance to bring on this orphan well that's been abandoned and neglected and then assume all of the financial responsibility to restore, plug the well, restore the land and turn it back over to the landowner. So it's kind of crazy, but, uh, it's easier for us to just, like I said, to just stay in that lane. And now we have, uh, you know, we've developed the model, we've, we're the, we're the first ones doing this right. We were the first ones to start this program in 2019. Like I said, everybody thought we were flat out crazy and now there are others who are entering into the space and, like I said, it was a pretty fulfilling milestone this week then to have that first group of carbon credits, then come out the mill and they'll be part of the funding stream and to help us flood Molo.
Friederike: 23:11
It's carbon avoidance credits probably right.
Curtis: 23:14
Yes, exactly.
Friederike: 23:15
Besides environmental concerns it can be also like a health hazard. I guess you know this methane coming out and et cetera. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit there? It must be quite tricky for a landowner having them and actually knowing that, or maybe they don't know. Like how is the situation there?
Curtis: 23:32
Well.
Curtis: 23:33
So, interestingly enough, in the United States, you know, many of the wells that we work on are what we refer to as legacy wells.
Curtis: 23:43
The oldest well we have plugged so far was in Pennsylvania and it was drilled in 1880. So many of these wells are very old. Of course they're old and the infrastructure is in very difficult shape, but what happens is these wells were drilled and produced and then kind of forgotten about, and, of course, communities know, communities built up around them, and we work on projects all the time that are very, very urban. And so, to your point, in addition to the climate impact and the potential of the greenhouse gas emissions, and then in addition to the potential for produced water or brine water to enter in, make its way to the surface and find its way into the waters surface water or groundwater or hydrocarbons, crude oil or light-end material but now, all of a sudden, there's a huge focus on, as you mentioned, on the health and safety side, because in addition to methane gas, there are also other very harmful gases, Like we're at our office today in the Permian Basin in southeastern New Mexico, right next to West Texas.
Curtis: 25:03
And in this area in particular, there's a huge hydrogen sulfide presence. So that's and that's a very poisonous, deadly gas. That's why I'm wearing my monitor, because we were just on a well earlier today, and so hydrogen sulfide is very dangerous. Extended reviews of those gas streams that are revealing the presence of benzene, the presence of toluene, of xylene, of ethyl methyl bad stuff, and these are all you know cancer causing and harmful agents. And again, because many of these wells are located, you know, directly near to homes, like we've plugged a well the closest well we've plugged to a home was 15 feet from the front door. So I mean, this is the real deal. And so now, all of a sudden, you know, in addition to the climate benefit, of course, there's all of these health and safety benefits as well.
Friederike: 26:04
And does it? Do you feel like this is getting more recognized and is putting more effort into this one side, from the oil and gas industry, but also from the governments or other parties? Do you feel like it's getting more recognized now than before, or do you think it's more from your perspective or from the community perspective getting recognized?
Curtis: 26:25
Well, I think there's a combination of things that have happened. Of course, we'd like to think that we were contributors to being able to tell the story. I mean, certainly, if you look on our website, we've been very fortunate over the last five years to have received lots of international and national attention to our little work that we do, international and national attention to our little work that we do. I think, then, that has helped to bring more attention to the problem. The federal government has stepped up recently with a large package of money in the United States not nearly enough, but it's a great start. Certainly it's got more attention now, and the oil and gas companies as well are supporting this notion. Just on, you know, drill, baby drill, but also this notion of you've got to plug baby, plug right, and that's what we've kind of countered with is look, it's just part of being a responsible operator. So it's trying to find that balance of how to position it. But no, to answer your question, absolutely yes.
Curtis: 27:32
I think that more attention has been brought to this matter, and not only here in the US and in Canada, but we're working on a pilot project, kicking off a pilot project in Peru right now, Actually on Monday of this week in Montana I met with a delegation from Turkmenistan and we're talking with those folks about a pilot project there. We've had some discussions in the country of Saudi Arabia about bringing kind of our approach and technology to the table there, so I think it's starting to see some real interest globally. Obviously, Australia has a huge problem and a huge focus there too, so we're excited to be able to, you know, be a part of not only those discussions but also provide some, you know, hopefully some inspiration and some technical assistance in getting these projects up and going in these other areas as well.
Friederike: 28:38
How do you measure like how much methane emissions or gases are coming out, which in the end will translate as well into the carbon avoidance credits?
Curtis: 28:49
So we use a number of instruments to do that. You know every well is different and so it's kind of like a tradesman, if you would, or a carpenter or a plumber. You know, when they come to your house they don't just show up with a hammer or a saw. I mean, they have a whole toolbox full of tricks right, hammer or a saw. I mean they have a whole toolbox full of tricks right. And so we have several systems that we use, depending on the age of the well and the type of the well and what have you. But it all comes down to very sophisticated instrumentation to be able to do the measurement.
Curtis: 29:21
Now, the detection is different than quantification, right, detection is sort of do we have a presence of gas? And okay, what does it? You know, kind of generally look like For the work that we do on the carbon credit side or the work that we do, for instance, with the federal government, that has to be very specific, and so the instrumentation that's used there has to be certified. The technicians that we have that measure the gas has to be certified. We've actually developed a training program and a certification program whereby we train folks to do that work. And it's also very dangerous, right? Because the thing about these orphan wealth they're not always dormant and docile. These are ticking time bombs. In many cases, this infrastructure has either failed or is failing right, and it's just like your house or your car. If you don't do anything to your house or your car for decades and decades, pretty soon you're just looking at a real disastrous potential. Pretty soon.
Friederike: 30:28
You're just looking at a real disastrous potential the certification process. Do you use any external, very known certification? I guess you're trading then on the voluntary market for these carbon credits, but do you have any tips or tools you're saying like this is actually great to use to do something like that?
Curtis: 30:47
Well, there's a couple of different levels on the certification side. So the first is the measurement specialist, right? So the measurement specialist has to be certified there's an actual federal term for that now as a qualified measurement specialist. So we've actually developed a certification program for this work. We are working with the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, we work with the American Petroleum Institute on developing that curriculum.
Curtis: 31:15
And then, in terms of the carbon credit itself, we, the Well Done Foundation, developed the first methodology for this orphan well work. Alongside. We first actually started with VERA, which is a carbon registry, and then we transitioned over to the American Carbon Registry or ACR. So we worked with them to produce the methodology. We were the original sponsor of that effort, of that methodology. Our first credits delivered under the carbon path registry, which is again is another registry, and so you know everyone has a similar methodology, if you would.
Curtis: 32:02
So it's really about you know, for us it's about maintaining the high integrity of the carbon credit and that really starts at the, absolutely at the beginning, right, and so we, through our process, we maintain sort of this complete transparency on the entire process where the well came from, how it came to be an orphan, have all of that documentation. That's called additionality. You have to be able to in the voluntary carbon market, you have to be able to maintain and prove that additionality. And then comes all of the measurement and all of the calculations on the climate impacts. If you would, and then of course, then you can start the plugging work. Well, you know, at the end of the day, if you would, and then, of course, then you can start the plugging work. Well, you know, at the end of the day, if you think about this whole continuum, from the first day we step onto the well till we finally, you know, plug and restore the surface, the actual plugging part is only about five days.
Curtis: 33:01
Right Now, of course, that's the part that gets all of the attention because we've got the rigs and the roughnecks and you know, the land man show going on, like is on TV today and I'll tell you it's very much like that out here. At the end of the day, all of the work that we do really starts in the quiet, those one-on-one conversations with the landowners, those one-on-one conversations with the landowners. And you know, in some cases it can take us a year from the first day we step on a well location until we get it plugged. I think our fastest that we've ever done. That has been in about 60 days, but that was in a real emergency situation.
Curtis: 33:44
But yeah, it's an interesting. You know, it's an interesting program. The continuum and every well again is so different. It's not only the depth of the well but it's the location of the well, the condition of the well. So we really try to do our due diligence in working with the regulatory agencies and the landowners to make sure that we can have a successful project looking ahead, where do you see the well down foundation like in the next few years?
Friederike: 34:15
what, what milestones you want to focus on or want to achieve in the next few years?
Curtis: 34:21
one of the things I tell people all the time is that you know, I have a well plugging problem right, and so I raise a little bit of money and I go plug a well. I raise a little bit of money and we go plug a well. You know, people ask all the time well, how many wells can you plug in a year? And it's like, well, it's directly tied to how much funding we can raise to be able to do that. We have the capability of being able to plug hundreds and hundreds of wells a year. We have the experience. We certainly have the list of wells to be able to work on, and that's one of the reasons for the Well Done Foundation's development of this carbon finance program is, I could tell, 2019, as I started this work and, of course, in 2019, there was no money. Nobody had any money at all for this work I said, well, we're never going to be able to scale up at this pace.
Curtis: 35:16
So that's why looking at developing a market-based solution for dealing with some of these climate problems, and so that was really our approach on carbon finance, and why to put that whole carbon finance program, carbon finance, and why to put that whole carbon finance program.
Curtis: 35:37
So our hope is, as we're, as we're, you know, successfully completing these projects, as we're placing these you know voluntary credits into the marketplace, then that that will not only generate awareness but will also then generate funding for us to be able to scale up this work. So, you know, what we're hoping that we'll accomplish in the next several years is again inspiring more people to enter into the space. Like I mentioned the training in Turkmenistan or the training in Peru, training right here in the United States is that more people, because we know that the Well Done Foundation isn't going to plug everywhere, but what we can do is we can be certainly agents of change and agents of training to be able to help provide the tools and the training for this to scale up. So that's really our goal, I think, in the next period.
Friederike: 36:28
Fantastic, so how the voluntary market has been quite under pressure in the last, let's say, 24 months. Do you feel the same, that the whole appetite for climate tech, environmental projects are right now a little bit declining? How do you see that and do you see hope that this has just been, you know, a small dip and it goes up again.
Curtis: 36:50
Yeah, I mean, we're hoping, of course, that people are going to see the benefit of doing this work. You know, I mean people, companies and individuals are setting goals. You know, I think this whole notion of awareness is really important, right, and people, you know, finding a way, or organizations finding a way to do it better and to leave it better, and you know so, some ways are obviously trying to reduce your own footprint and, just, you know, be a better human or a better company, but then also knowing that we're not going to be able to get all the way there. So let's look at, you know, some of this low hanging fruit, and certainly orphan wells are absolutely low hanging fruit. So, I think, you know, through a combination of processes, I think, just this general understanding in the marketplace that we have to do a better job. I think people are starting to really see that. That it's, you know, it's not the other person's responsibility, it's actually my responsibility to be more involved.
Curtis: 37:54
So, yeah, we're hoping that, on the global stage, that this, you know, carbon market is going to continue to gain traction and continue to be seen as a real, viable and legitimate source. And certainly, you know, for us and the work we do. It's, uh, it is very, like I said, very buyer binary. It's very measurable, uh, it's gas on, gas off, and you measure the gas and it is what it is. And so, yeah, we hope that we're able to maintain a market to fund the work, of course.
Curtis: 38:28
But you know, for us, and what I tell people all the time, which is important is that, for us, and what I tell people all the time, which is important is that, for us, carbon credits are really a result of our work, right? So they're not the driver of our work, they're not the focus of our work. We're not profiteers, right, we're not doing this for profit. We're doing this to plug more wells, and so we're going to plug wells, whether we have a carbon credit solution or not. We've been plugging wells, you know, out of our own pocket to start with, and we're going to keep plugging wells long after the the carbon market is gone, right?
Friederike: 39:04
so nice, very nice looking back what has been your most valuable experience in the last five years gosh.
Curtis: 39:14
you, you know, being able to restore an area of land and watch a new crop be grown there that couldn't be grown for more than 100 years, being able to see the positive impact on the family who doesn't have that well in their front yard, I mean, there are so many, so many wonderful examples that we've been fortunate to be a part of, and I think, also, it's just being able to, you know, to have opportunities like this to tell our story internationally, internationally, all across the world, um and and for people. Again, our hope is that people are inspired and not, you know, I mean, obviously we love it if they help support our work, but it's really this notion of do something right. I don't care what you do, just go out and do something, because it's all of our responsibility.
Friederike: 40:13
That's a nice last sentence I would say to our podcast. If people want to reach out and maybe donate, how can they do that?
Curtis: 40:22
So we'd love for them to check us out on our website, and that's at wwwwelldonefoundationorg, send us an email, check out our projects and our activities, check out some of the past press that we've received and we've also got a lot of great things going on out there. Follow us on social media and tell your friends about us. I mean, for us, that's kind of what really matters, like I said, because we are absolutely a grassroots organization, so people just like you and me out there every day making a difference.
Friederike: 41:02
One last question which I always ask everyone. So what makes you confident that we can solve the climate crisis?
Curtis: 41:09
Well, I think it really comes back to that one well at a time approach, right, like that's what gets me up every morning, you know, is this notion that we're going to go out and do some measurable good this day.
Curtis: 41:23
Sometimes that, you know, is way off in the distance and seems like this completely unachievable program.
Curtis: 41:30
But then you know we have an opportunity to talk like someone, like yourself or with your listeners, or you know a phone call from someone or an email saying thank you for the work you're doing. I mean, that's what keeps me going every day. You know, I've had this kind of had this deal in place, if you would, from the beginning of this journey. For me is that you know we're going to keep on going down this path as long as the doors keep opening and as long as you know it makes sense to do, and sure it's. You know, just like in any journey, you have ups and downs and rough patches, but every time we thought we were about out of money or that we thought we had, you know, kind of reached the end, some new door opens up and some new amazing opportunity presents itself. And so you know we're really blessed and fortunate to be in this space and, like I said, we just hope that others will find their way as well to do something.
Friederike: 42:31
Fantastic. Thank you so much, curtis, for joining my podcast today. It was really inspiring to see something and listen to someone who's really on the ground doing it, so it's really inspiring. Thank you so much.
Curtis: 42:44
Yes, thank you, and we'll look forward to seeing you soon. All right?
Speaker 5: 42:52
Thank you for joining today's episode. You can find the show notes, background materials and contact details of our guests on our website, sustainnowch. Follow and share our podcast on any platform available. Do you have a comment or interesting solution to take a deep dive? Please don't hesitate to go to our website, sustainnowch, and write us an email.
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